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The Razer 3G Laser technology – Our statement |
| October 30th, 2007 |
There’s a lot of confusion out there about what makes a laser gaming mouse great. In developing the 3G laser for the Lachesis, we are confident that we can clear everything up and tell you what makes a Razer mouse the last word for gaming. Here’s a brief explanation of what’s new, and also what’s always been around in Razer sensors.
1. How does the sensor work?
a.The 3G laser sensor uses two lasers while maintaining perfect eye safety.
Both lasers are focused on to a flat surface (your mouse mat, for instance),
and each laser reads out 8 million samples per second, one for the X-axis, and one for the Y-axis.
Each sample is calculated by the sensor, and the direction and speed of the mouse movement is determined (so it results in real-time and instantaneous motion detection). For each 1ms (yes, that’s a millisecond, or 1/1000 of a second) of data sent by the Lachesis to your computer, over 16,000 different samples are processed to give an “accurate to the millisecond” measure of direction and movement.
A large number of computations are run on the data on each directional sensor (i.e. one set of computations are run on X and one set on Y) within this millisecond. Speed and direction are computed via a dedicated Digital Signal Processor (DSP) in the sensor, producing direction and information data independently for each axis. This large number of samples and the great speed at which it is processed results in a highly accurate “snapshot” of how far and in what direction the mouse has moved in that millisecond.
b. Each laser measures the interference caused by the beam’s own waves upon being reflected back into the laser. This result is very high surface compatibility on almost any surface the laser beam is capable of reflecting off.
c. The DSP calculates the data from each sensor based on the interference received and produces a final result of X/Y movement.
d. The movement reported by the Lachesis to the PC can be as high as 256.000cps per X/Y axis, which makes half a million cps for the resulting vector cursor speed, each and every single count produced by the 3G laser sensor at any resolution.
So, in effect, there are two sensors in the Lachesis, each sensor generates its own mouse movement data. Contrast this with the second generation of lasers, where only one sensor is used to compute both X and Y displacement in speed, resulting in some inevitable optimizations and errors for movements in specific directions.
There is no compromise on the Y axis simply to provide better performance on the X axis, and vice versa. There’s no artificial smoothing of the lines you draw, or cheats to “interpret” your hand movements into what we think is “right”, as X and Y data are provided independently of each other.
2. How tunable is the DPI?
a. The sensor is capable of DPI increments from 125 to 4000 in steps of 125. We understand that 4000 DPI isn’t for everyone and we feel that this allows you the maximum flexibility in setting your own precision level based on your needs. For example:
i.A game requires a total of 6750 “dots” or “counts” to turn 180°. You would like to be able to turn this in 6” on your mouse pad. Therefore the formula you would use to set your Lachesis would be: 6750 dots / 6 inches = 1125DPI to get the optimum result. You could also set your mouse to 2500DPI and then use our driver or the in-game sensitivity slider to half sensitivity, which would produce the same result, except that you would be adding an additional calculation between your mouse and the game.
ii.You also snipe in-game, but prefer slower movement with the sniper scope. You can set another button to instantly bring up 750DPI (for example) for this purpose.
iii.In Windows you have a screen resolution of 2560×1600. When surfing the Internet, you may prefer to be able to move across the screen within one inch, in which case your DPI should be set at 2500DPI. The Lachesis driver can intelligently change the DPI based on what application is loaded if you choose to configure it in this manner, or you can change the DPI yourself with the touch of a button.
b.The Lachesis gives you maximum flexibility by allowing you to preset up to 5 DPI settings on 5 different profiles, for a total of 25 different DPI settings. Or, if you so choose, you can have just 1, or 2, or 3. The option is there to customize to your needs, and the best part is you can take these settings with you wherever you go, without having to install our drivers.
3. What’s the top speed? How does it control? Is there acceleration?
a.Sensors have various levels of surface compatibility (i.e. how well they work on different materials, like a wooden desk or a cloth mat). For a normal office laser mouse, this means that it will work well on both a highly polished table or a normal mouse pad at certain low speeds (usually below 20 inches per second, or IPS).
b.At higher speeds, sensors designed for gaming have consistent performance, while normal sensors will start to produce dramatic errors. For example, when turning quickly in an FPS you may suddenly find yourself looking at the sky or your feet; not a good situation if someone is creeping up behind you with a gun. So although the sensor may still be sending data at a high speed, the data is in effect junk and worse than useless – these errors may be hazardous to your virtual health!
c.Acceleration is a term used to describe the mouse covering differing amount of pixels based on how fast the mouse is moved.
Example:
Very slowly (at less than 1IPS) I move my mouse 4”. I cover 2400 pixels on a Windows monitor (perhaps equivalent to a 90° turn in my FPS). My mouse is performing at 2400 dots / 4 inches = 600DPI.
I then do a motion covering the same 4”, but this time I move my hand much faster. I cover only 1800 pixels in Windows (and not quite a 90° turn in the same FPS). My mouse at a higher speed is performing inconsistently: 1800 dots / 4 inches = 450DPI.
In this example, I am experiencing negative acceleration when I move my mouse quickly. This is most likely caused by the mouse sensor not being able to cope properly with the high speed and the surface it is being operated on.
The 3G laser will operate comfortably up to 100IPS, giving you perfect control at the speed on a multitude of surfaces. That means you will not experience negative effects of acceleration like with other sensors that are incapable of high speeds and unable to cope with the speed and/or surface that it is on.
Note: the 3G laser sensor at 4000DPI has a maximum speed of 64.3 IPS (the sensor is rated 60IPS to 100IPS). This is due to the amount of data being processed at high resolution and is not due to a sensing error. If you are using broad sweeping motions in your gameplay, chances are you will benefit from a lower DPI setting, and the 3G laser sensor is more than capable of accommodating you with a minimum DPI setting of 125, with increments of 125 to tailor to your own requirements.
Beyond 64.3IPS at 4000DPI, what happens with the 3G Laser sensor is that it tops out without causing errors. This is basically a speed limit to ensure the 4000DPI is read correctly; from our research this is a reasonable trade off for such high DPI (i.e. fast physical motion isn’t necessary at this high DPI).
d.In the end, the top speed of any sensor is the rate at which you can move it while maintaining perfect control. All other numbers, from samples per second to megapixels have to live or die by the amount of control you can get from your mouse.
For the 3G Laser sensor, you can get perfect control up to 100IPS and we stand by this.
If you’re still with me, thank you for reading what must seemed to have been a pretty dry technical discussion. For other queries or feedback, please drop them off here . I’ll be monitoring the comments, and will try to provide consolidated answers where possible.
Edit
As promised, a couple of consolidated replies for those that are interested. I’m confining my responses here specifically to the Lachesis:
Best grip
- From Philbert and Ryan ZX679
While there can’t be a perfect grip for everyone, here’s a couple of suggested methods for holding the Lachesis for both claw, small and large hands.
Best surface
- from Samuel
The Lachesis works very well with both our speed eXactmat surface and our Mantis surface. It also works considerably better than most other competing mice on other surfaces.
Mouse movement
- from Vicek, Doogie and Lola
The Lachesis utilizes a very sensitive sensor. Having a very powerful vibration on your surface, at a high dpi, may cause the mouse cursor to drift even while stationary (e.g. from a sub-woofer placed on a desk, for instance). The solution to this is to put your bass somewhere that won’t directly affect the surface the mouse is on.
The sensor at very high dpis (2500 and above) may also be affected by how you press the mouse buttons. At such a high sensitivity, even a little movement will cause the mouse cursor to move, as you may make an unintentional movement left or right. We realize that not every one may be able to (or want to) consciously control their button presses but want to make use of the high dpis, so we’re releasing a small software tool in November that will allow you to tweak how the sensor responds when it detects a button press to lessen this effect.
Finally, we’re replicating in the lab the random occasional movement and should have news on this soon. This is different from suddenly looking up or looking down in a fast turn. This indicates that you’re using the mouse exceeding the maximum speed at which it can operate correctly; this could be something to do with your play style (very fast swipes) or surface compatibility.
Lower dpi, higher ips?
from KageShikamaru
This is a data throughput issue, and not a sensor technology one. Basically, at higher dpis, moving at the same speed, the sensor is sending a much larger amount of information. We’ve put a limit on the ips at higher dpis in order to maximize the performance on the Lachesis (i.e. 4000 dpi is around 60ips max).
On-the-fly DPI
from Ernest
The Lachesis uses two methods for dpi switching. The “hardware” mode allows you to set up to 5 preset dpis in intervals of 125, from 125 to 4000 for each profile. Once programmed, these are remembered by the mouse until you change the settings again. It doesn’t matter what computer the mouse is on.
The “software” mode is our OTFS GUI that shows a bar in game and allows you to change a sensitivity setting in our driver while in game, using your scroll wheel. This is not portable and requires a driver.
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October 30th, 2007 at 9:41 pm
Dear Razer Guru,
I have been a long user of Razer Perpherials since the Diaomondback first came out. When I first started gaming, I used the “CLAW” hold type. Ever since I moved to more of FPSing [CSS and 1.6 mainly] I have found out I perform better using the “Palm” hold type. I thus moved to the Deathadder. It was like sex for the hand =D!
I recently purchased a Razer Lachesis after following it since the first email ad. I have one question which would be : How do you hold this damn mouse? I find that a combination of claw and palm, is what i need to use with my palm on the mouse but my fingers in a kinda claw position. To move I have to use palm AND Claw which is kinda funny. If I focus on a palm grip like my DeathAdder, the mouse will lean back and will be unable to track. So how do I hold this mouse!
Sincerly,
Philibert “TheWickedCow” Santhanaraj
October 30th, 2007 at 10:39 pm
Well, that means we’ll be able to use the mouse without any interpolation/correction/prediction and so on, so this will be the purest form of tracking of the mice~
In short, this will pwn the steel mices XD
What surface does it tracks best on? Hard? Cloth?
Im a low sens user who prefers a surface that gives me the best ips~
October 31st, 2007 at 4:48 am
Thanks for the info to the 3G Laser Sensor.
Do you have plans to make a refresh of the Deathadder with the ne 3G laser Sensor? I like the shape more then the Lachesis. Or any new righthanded mouse?
October 31st, 2007 at 7:25 am
Hi! Well, I bought my Lachesis yesterday and it is my 5th Razer mouse. Overall it is very nice but there are two problems for me, problems which shouldn’t appear if we are talking about so expensive mouse from well-known company. Sorry for that “hard” words but it is really annoying…
First of all - very often when I play my favourite FPS game (WarSow, something like Q3 CPMA), I am running forward, moving my mouse only horizontal, and suddenly I look at the sky (”For example, when turning quickly in an FPS you may suddenly find yourself looking at the sky or your feet”).
Second thing - it happens even in Windows. I hold my mouse and the cursor moves left, without any help… For example - I am aiming and then my xhair goes 3 cm on the left…
At the moment there are only early drivers and firmware… I hope that you will fix it, somehow. I had some problems with all previous Razer mice but they’re acceptable and I stil love Razer. However, those two Lachesis’s bugs are really horrible and I am sure that I won’t be able to play with them…
Best regards.
October 31st, 2007 at 8:46 am
This sounded so much like a reply to the “FragYou” Article ;].
Nice Article / Post , specially about the Double Sensor doing no Corrections / Predictions and the relation of DPI and IPS.
I have an question about what you said :
DPI / IPS : Does that means that the lower the DPI the better the “IPS Performance”? Why does the opposite happens on the DeathAdder Sujoy Review? He reduced the DPI to 400 I think and the Perfect Control Speed was way lower…
October 31st, 2007 at 12:34 pm
I also pre-ordered the Lachesis and like Philbert my biggest gripe is its shape. I like to hold the mouse with my thumb and ring-finger on each side about an inch behind where the tips of my index and middle finger touch buttons 1 and 2 (the “claw” grip). This is made pretty uncomfortable by the way the Lachesis gets wider under buttons 1 and 2. I wish I could just (or that Razer had) made buttons 1 and 2 narrow like on the Copperhead. That said, the sensor is absolutely phenomenal. I love the ability to set the DPI to my prference of 2250. It is as if the mouse is now tuned to me as oppsed to me having to tune my movements to the mouse. Good Job! However, lots of people (on razerblueprints.net) are having trouble with the Lachesis tracking on hard smooth surfaces (the Exactmat and Steelseries pads in particular). PLEASE FIX THIS RAZER!! It does, however, work fantastically on the Mantis.
October 31st, 2007 at 12:48 pm
“If I focus on a palm grip like my DeathAdder, the mouse will lean back and will be unable to track. So how do I hold this mouse!”
Lol , this was really funny ;[.
October 31st, 2007 at 6:20 pm
Overall i love this mouse however there are issues with it which i’m sure can be fixed with a firmware update.
Main issue which appears to be experienced by a number of users is random movements of the mouse pointer. You can be just browsing a webpage with no hands on the mouse and then suddenly the pointer will jump or slide across the screen for a short distance.
If this can be fixed then this will be the best Razer mouse ever
November 1st, 2007 at 11:04 pm
I noticed that the Lachesis previously had the “phantom white” light color option, which is now reduced to just the banshee blue. What happened? Will it still be shipped in white?
November 5th, 2007 at 9:09 am
Hey guys,
my lachesis is too sensitive for me at times and when i try to keep the cursur at a fixed place, it moves. Could you’ll recommend me a good setting ( DPI , x and y sensitivty and all the other stuff ) for fps gaming such as cs:source? ty
November 5th, 2007 at 10:49 am
“The movement reported by the Lachesis to the PC can be as high as 256.000cps per X/Y axis, which makes half a million cps for the resulting vector cursor speed, each and every single count produced by the 3G laser sensor at any resolution.”
I think this statement is wrong.
The magnitude (sqrt(256000^2 + 256000^2)) is approx. 362038.67.
November 5th, 2007 at 1:02 pm
http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1463999#pid1463999
http://razerblueprints.net/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=99&topic=6827
Some user claim there is prediction in the mice, or is the sensor to act like that?
There are also some skipping issues, plz fix the soon~
Thx!
November 5th, 2007 at 5:26 pm
Hello again, after a brief extended prolonged siesta….
I’m sure you were all wondering where I’ve been all this time….or…not…
Let’s get down to business. After using Razer products for coming up on a year, I have a few choice words. I hadn’t checked, but I’m fairly certain my last post never saw the light of day, so I’ll try and make this one a tad more…diplomatic.
Diamondback: Love it! It’s dying on me, and I’m in the process of getting it replaced. More on that later.
Copperhead: Absolutely love it!! WAY more sensitive than the G7. I am already drooling over getting a Lachesis.
Barracuda Sound Card: Some static issues and low frequency feedback which I’m fairly certain are the fault of the card and not the headphones. Also, no matter how many times I adjust the sound card settings, it seems to have a different resonating echoing undertone to it than the last game I played, and sometimes it makes the game sound incredibly bad.
Barracuda Headphones: After going through an arduous process to get them replaced, they’ve worked fine, except for the aforementioned discrepancies. After further trouble with them, Razer Support has offered a voucher for the Razer Store, which I have graciously accepted; however, this is the point on which I’d like to deliberate:
How come you guys don’t have an easy replacement policy??
So many other companies(such as Mindspring, or Logitech, or Gateway) have an extremely simple replacement policy. If the item to be replaced is too expensive to not be returned(after qualifying for a replacement), the company ships a pre-paid box out, and the customer ships back the part. Once the part is received, the company ships out the replacement part. The company covers all shipping costs, and hassle is kept to a minimum.
Although I am relieved Razer Support was so quick to offer a reasonable solution with the voucher, I still want working hardware. A headset/sound card combo isn’t as easily replaceable as, say, a mouse. I invested over $300 for these two pieces, so I expect them to work! I understand that every customer can’t be satisfied, and every new technology has problems, but that only reinforces the need for a SIMPLE replacement policy! Come on, guys, you’re better than this!
November 5th, 2007 at 6:08 pm
Are adjustments to DPI handled in the mouse via hardware (like in the Habu), or in the drive via software (like in all other Razer mice, I think)? I’m a Mac user who REALLY wants to get this mouse, but if it isn’t a hardware feature that adjusts DPI, then you can’t change the DPI on-the-fly on the Mac, and so the mouse isn’t an option for me.
November 8th, 2007 at 1:11 pm
Hey guyz i have same problem like vicek my cursor moves not left but right ;o without any help :
November 8th, 2007 at 3:02 pm
aion, lol what the heck are you doin here?
Go back to rbp! XD
Hi CTO, i’m the one who requested this blog…
Well can my questions be unsered yet?
I know you kinda busy…
Theres no prediction?
Hmm…
http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/7534/g9andlachesis400dpiut9.jpg
http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/4471/predictionfn3.jpg
Comparison between the 4 mices, mx518, G9, Ime 3.0, Lachesis~
Readers be the judge~
Kudos razer!
November 9th, 2007 at 2:49 am
Thanks for the response about the grips Razerguy. After a week or so of break-neck speed FPS gaming my fingers were starting to hurt the way I was holding it so I relaxed a bit and now the mouse is more comfortable. My grip now looks a lot like the third grip picture you added and the movements I make feel more precise.
Thanks again
November 9th, 2007 at 2:59 am
As for the non-Lachesis related questions:
Nilas -> DA update or future product releases
As a matter of company policy, I can’t discuss future products. That said, razerblueprints.net typically has good information
iiora -> As are as I’m aware, the white glowing Lachesis is in manufacture and should be in stores soon.
Samuel -> As stated in the original post, there is no prediction present in the Lachesis.
November 10th, 2007 at 11:30 am
Thank you for explaining the jumping issue however could you please comment on how unstable the driver seems in Vista 64. When I installed the Lachesis software explorer suddenly became unstable. After uninstalling and reverting back to my coperhead (software and all) everything was alright.
November 12th, 2007 at 12:27 pm
hey guys!
really nice mouse so far… but with one big issue.
my problem regards the new very small lift-off distance (as far as i know), and i think this does not only affect me! i got a low-sens ingame and if i turn about 90° - moving the mouse really fast to the left -i think i lift it - only a little bit, but enough that it couldn’t track anymore… this can be described as a tracking-problem as well, maybe some other people got that issue, too!
if it is possible to get rid of this small problem, i will use the lachesis as my “weapon of choice”, but if it cannot be fixed i can’t play with it.
so keep on working guys!
November 13th, 2007 at 6:20 am
okay, believe you, there no prediction, or correction, or alogarithym, then why in the world are we drawing prefectly straight movement?
Mind to explain more, we’ll be trully interested XD
Also, will the current sensor problem be fixed in the newer batches of razer mices?
November 13th, 2007 at 6:23 am
Oh i mean why are we drawing perfectly straight lines…
Kinda sleppy, sorry~
So that means higher DPi we’ll have better ips, right?
November 15th, 2007 at 7:12 am
Right, bought the Lachesis. Loving it. Customisable DPI switching is an absolute GODSEND. Couple of issues however, not sure whether they are driver/firmware based or whether it is an issue with this particular mouse I have:
Issue number 1 - The double click does not work when assigned to a button. I get a very slow double click speed that isn’t resolved by reducing the required speed in the Razer Config. I have tried it in-game to get an idea of the speed and there is a good .50 to .75 second lapse between the initial and secondary clicks, and this is when I push and release the button very quickly. It seems like the secondary click only kicks in when I release the button - surely this should be programmed into the mouse to happen when the button is initially depressed? This is too slow to be recognised as a double click…….
Issue number 2 - I have LCtrl bound to mouse button 3 - when I depress the button in game instead of getting a constant press it repeats the press instead - at a number of times per second. Therefore, instead of giving me a steady crouch I end up doing what can only be described as tapdancing with a ferret in my pants. Hilarious for my gaming colleagues, doesnt help me much when I’m getting owned.
Can anyone shed any light on these? Should I return the mouse? HELP!!!! Becau I think its a genius product, just needs the glitches ironed out……..
Nice……..
November 15th, 2007 at 8:52 am
I had the same problem as Jan..
and i do hope it will be fixed soon in a form of firmware/driver update…
November 19th, 2007 at 10:00 am
In response to Samuel regarding the tracking issue and getting perfectly straight lines: Uninstall and reinstall the main driver suite mate - works a treat. I got the same issue on Saturday and trying to render images out in Photoshop was fast becoming a nightmare, so thought if I reinstalled the driver from the ground up it might help and it did.
Cogito ergo sum.
Any feedback on the double click issue and bind to button mentioned above?
November 21st, 2007 at 7:03 am
Din’t you read the blog, its a hardware issue…
Ah, well, if the problems were to be fixed using a frimware, the performance and response would suffer, do you want that to happen? Hell no…
Wait for razer to deal it with the manufacture site, then get a new mice…
_______________________________________________________
Lower dpi, higher ips?
from KageShikamaru
This is a data throughput issue, and not a sensor technology one. Basically, at higher dpis, moving at the same speed, the sensor is sending a much larger amount of information. We’ve put a limit on the ips at higher dpis in order to maximize the performance on the Lachesis (i.e. 4000 dpi is around 60ips max).
_______________________________________________________
Huh i thought the higher the ips the better?
Its like 2.5 meter per second, most lowsensers hit that easilly?
How would a lower ips improve performance?
Mind to reply? I really would like to hear from you, CTO, thou your very busy XD
Regards
-Samuel-
November 27th, 2007 at 11:27 am
The Lachesis causes you to draw straight lines when acceleration is turned on. It does not when acceleration is turned off. I think that acceleration MAY be turned on by default. Can you confirm this Razerguru?
December 1st, 2007 at 10:31 am
I have the exact same issue… did it ever get resolved?
December 1st, 2007 at 3:51 pm
“A game requires a total of 6750 “dots” or “counts” to turn 180″.
Where did you get this number? What resolution was used when this was tested?
In my test I have found this to be quite untrue, with 800dpi(sensitivity in driver set to max/default in game) at 1024×768 in F.E.A.R. I get a 180 in less than two inches.
How does dpi transfer to actual on screen mouse movement? For example if I move my mouse at 800dpi one inch does that mean the the pointer will move 800 pixels?
Any help you could give would be of great help to me.
December 2nd, 2007 at 5:39 am
No, the sensor tends to act like that, you can try it out yourself~
Razerguru, here’s some suggestion, how about creating 2 versions of firmware?
One with a lower ips and better performance, whoch suits medium to high sensers, and another firmware with more then 100ips for those super lowsensers~
Btw i’m really curious how would a lower ips increase “performance”?
Plz comment!
Would like to hear from you soon~
December 7th, 2007 at 6:52 am
@ mikeftb
I think he’s just being hypothetical when he says,
“A game requires a total of 6750 “dots” or “counts” to turn 180″.
He doesn’t mean that this is true for all games or any particular game. It’s just a number (probably ficticious) that he used to demonstrate how one should select their DPI on the Lachesis
@Razerguru: firmware/drivers before Christmas? Please?
December 9th, 2007 at 12:16 pm
Erm… i just bought this razer lachesis…. its having some problem which i hope you know how to solve….
Whenever i on my music my mouse at the desktop starts to move… i tried alot of things…. such as puting my bass on the floor but the mouse still moves… i wish you would help me!! Does this require the use of the X -Y axis or acceration!!
HELP!!!
Yours Sincerly
[D]eX =D
December 9th, 2007 at 10:11 pm
Hey,I like small lift-off distance,especially in playing CS.
But Lachesis is not suit CS,however it has the new lift-off distance.
December 10th, 2007 at 10:01 pm
mikeftb, if your Windows pointer speed is set to the middle (which in Windows means no filtering done on the mouse movement data received) and there is no acceleration enabled, then 800dpi = 800 pixels for every 1 inch of movement. Your mileage may vary depending on the surface you’re using the mouse on by up to 25%, this is inherent in all sensors.
RyanZX679, acceleration is a function of the operating system (our drivers just let you turn it off), or the game. It has nothing to do with the sensor. If you don’t like how the OS or the game is attempting to predict your movements, you should turn it off.
Just to let you all know that we are close to a beta release on some new firmware that will help with double clicking, and resolve the random cursor jumping plus some other niggling irritations. We’re stabilizing it for release and I’ll announce it soon.
December 11th, 2007 at 3:09 am
Thanx, i’m glad to hear that the Razer techs are listening to the users out there.
I’m looking forward to the new beta and hope its sorts out the jumpy/sliding issue.
December 11th, 2007 at 5:45 am
So basically, the lower the DPi, the more ips it will be, rite?
Funny its opposite to the deathadder….
December 11th, 2007 at 6:00 am
Most reviews and users claim this mouse to be ver accurate,
i would like to know what makes this mice that accurate?
And what technical spec affects a mouse accuracy?
Frames per second of the sensor?
December 11th, 2007 at 5:03 pm
RazerGuru posted
“Just to let you all know that we are close to a beta release on some new firmware that will help with double clicking, and resolve the random cursor jumping plus some other niggling irritations. We’re stabilizing it for release and I’ll announce it soon.”
Now that is good news I’m looking forward to that.
Is there a chance you will publish your findings to explain the reason behind the random cursor jumping.
Also is the cursor sliding a part of the same problem?
December 12th, 2007 at 9:21 pm
Samuel, the DeathAdder has the exact same IPS over all dpis, since the max is only 1800dpi we don’t hit a data throughput issue with that sensor.
As for technical specifications affecting accuracy, FPS isn’t necessarily a good measure, it really depends on a lot of factors and it isn’t easy to comparison shop based on one spec alone. The best thing you can do is try the mouse (e.g. the Lachesis takes 8million samples per second on each axis, we could claim it is 16,000,000FPS but it would be a meaningless number).
I’ll be busy putting together the new firmware and software, so keep those questions coming and I’ll get to em when I next update.
December 13th, 2007 at 3:27 am
Hey,RazerGuru,
First,I like Lachesis’s lift-off distance. I wanna replay a comment left by Jan who like long lift-off distance,but,The blog doesn’t supply quote.
Second,I said Lachesis not suit CS,The reason is the tardy movement in CS. I am using Microsoft IE3.0 mouse(new edition) at middle speed,IE3.0 moves quickly and accurately. But Lachesis like a snail at middle speed and like a drunk bull at high speed,It is so hard to control. Maybe It’s my personal habit about movement performance. I don’t know how to describe exactly in english,:).
Finally,Lachesis has good performance at Windows XP desktop entironment. I hope the new firmware will resolve the jumpy and drifting issue. I have to use Lachesis on wooden desk surface now, because Lachesis drift on Mantis control mat like a good skate player. I like cloth mat so much.
That’s all.
December 14th, 2007 at 2:42 am
Same here. I’m using the mantis speed pad and find the mouse really difficult to control. I sucked last night in COD4…my deathadder before this performed better without issues. The only reason i changed was the ambidextorous design (i’m left handed).
December 26th, 2007 at 7:21 pm
nice theory, but terrible errors with that mouse, cause cursor is jumping around terrible, eaven with the new beta firmware!
December 28th, 2007 at 1:43 am
Sad !!!!!!
The beta 1.56 don´t fix the problens !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(jumping, inacurance etc….) on my new axactmat surface…
even with Razer pad it does not work properly !?!
ANY NEWS ON NEW FIRMWARE (NOT 1.56 ! ) ?
January 3rd, 2008 at 1:56 am
You guys are certainly taking your time with that firmware (the beta didn’t really do much…the problems persist). A lot of people have already returned or sold this mouse. I can’t blame them.
I submitted a ticket to Razer Support but they haven’t replied in three days so I’ll post it here: Where can I buy replacement mouse feet for the Lachesis?
January 3rd, 2008 at 4:14 pm
the beta drivers do not fix the issue. i am using the razer exactmat control and speed surfaces and neither of them work well. i am forced to use a crappy soft mat in order to get any performance out of this mouse, which is sad because i bought the nice mat when i bought the mouse thinking i would have the best gaming experience ever with the combination of the two.
the firmware 1.56(beta) made the problem worse, and i had to revert back.
please fix this cursor jumping issue. i can’t say how sad i’ve gotten everytime i mess up while gaming just because the cursor decided it wanted to wander off like 3 inches.
PS i’ve kept a air dust thing next to my mouse and mat and use it every hour and it doesn’t fix the problem, so dust isn’t the issue. i also don’t have any loud sounds that would be affecting the table where the mat rests.
January 8th, 2008 at 1:52 am
“Best surface
- from Samuel
The Lachesis works very well with both our speed eXactmat surface and our Mantis surface. It also works considerably better than most other competing mice on other surfaces.”
What a joke.
January 10th, 2008 at 6:48 am
try different usb ports/hubs. this is what reduces the jumping problem for me. i got one hub which makes the cursor dance, and another one causes alomost no problems at all.
January 14th, 2008 at 2:29 am
It’s more than just usb problems. They’ve discovered the problem and the fix should be out this week.
January 14th, 2008 at 11:39 am
Dear Razer|Guru,
Regarding Firmware v1.56
“It turns out that there is more than one cause for the random behavior, which has something to do with the laser reading an amplified signal caused by “waste” scattered laser light reflecting back into the “signal” laser (which is why you see amplified “jumps”). Some surfaces are better/worse at causing this. ”
The most significant problems with the Lachesis are:
- Axis Lockups
- Random Cursor jumps, spikes in movement, accelerations
- Anomalous movement while “clicking”, particularly on soft surfaces
Axis lockups:
These occur on all axis (x, y, positive and negative directions), the v1.56 beta firmware does not seem to address these issues and they certainly aren’t resolved. Is there any news or update on its way for this issue?
Furthermore: axis lockups seem to occur in 1 direction at a time and do not let the mouse move beyond a point on the screen, the non locked axis will continue to move.
Anomalous movements (Clicking and other)
The “click accuracy tool” released alongside firmware beta v1.56 attempts to address this issue – but fails to address the root of the problem.
** Cursor “drifts” or anomalous movements occur when clicking on *soft* surfaces or pads (read: any soft surface, binder, stack of paper, text books, legs, arms, mouse pads). Key point – they occur not from the clicking – but from pressure being exerted on the mouse (without moving it). Even placing the weight of your hand on the mouse while its resting on a soft surface is enough to displace the cursor significantly, please note this is without moving the mouse.
*Click accuracy tool will never effectively address this issue since the cursor will move severely from the pressure you exert on the mouse ** before ** the button is depressed. Try it for yourselves, begin to depress the mouse button without pressing it – the increased pressure will cause the cursor to drift. Next try placing the weight of your hand vertically on the mouse without moving it – note the cursor displacement.
RazerGuru – Are the driver/firmware updates going to address these issues or is my mouse defective?
Lachesis – Phantom White
Bought on release day.
Regards,
Sandy
January 17th, 2008 at 6:14 am
Hi
Are those things that Sandy asked going to be fixed any time soon??
Axis lockups are terrible.
I should have bought a G9 it seems…
January 23rd, 2008 at 1:42 am
http://www.razersupport.com/lachesis/Lachesis-v1.58.zip
January 28th, 2008 at 6:00 am
Hiho
I dont experience any of these Problems…
And like you can see here: http://miniprofile.xfire.com/bg/sh/type/2/soulsnake13.png
i am playing a shit load of Guild Wars and Eve …
Neither with the 1.00 nor with the 1.58!!
mfg
Soul
January 30th, 2008 at 8:48 am
i have the following assumption:
could ist be, that the jumping-cursor-problem sources from the silver-sticker at the bottom of the lachesis?
the sticker, with the text “3G laser sensor prcision 4000 dpi”?
when this sticker is not placed EXACTLY over the sensor-hole and/or some small particles/hairs from the mousepad remain sticking at the edge of the hole of the sticker, these particles/hairs are fooling the sensor.
this assumption whould match the reports from some users, which say, that they have less problems, when cleaning the lens every day and other who say, they have less problems without any mouse-pad, or with mouse-pads not made of cloth.
January 30th, 2008 at 8:49 pm
Bought this mouse and im really disappointed. Unless new firmware (and 1.58 aint it) can fix these skipping problems, im going to sell this off cheap to someone,anyone who dont play games at least. But never mind that, drawing in photoshop just now and its like impossible to draw a circle, never mind a rectangle or simple stuff like that.
Fyi i have a kick ass gaming machine 8GB ram, 512mb gfx card etc.
I have used the following mice on a new install of vista and xp, without any problems.
Logitech G5, MX518, MS 1.1 3.0. 4.0. and some others. Point is they all worked flawlessly out of the box, no skipping no erratic behaviour.
As it turns out i bought razer a long time ago, the diamondback. Now that mice had problems too, it just simply kept powering off while in use, after a few hours of uptime. Re-plugging it fixed it but come on…
I bought this mouse for a couple of simple reasons, which was 1 the shape which fits perfect in my palm, and the ability to have the sensitivy setup so its portable, ie for lan and such and no worries about that.
But doesnt really matter does it. If you cant take a simple rocket jump or let alone 5 or 10 in capture the flag, because that will be next to impossible with this mouse.
Im really disappointed, i thought razer had got more quality then previously, but i guess its still just hype and ppl claiming its good, as they either 1: work for razer or 2: are newbs playing cs who practically never takes a 0.1 sec 180 turn and back again, dozens and dozens of times during a game.
Mx518 owns this.
January 31st, 2008 at 3:57 am
Dont have any grip on this Lachesis…Want a Diamondback with:
Lachesis Side Butons+DPI switch butons+1000hz+4000 dpi (or more ;])+120 ips (even with full dpi[Nothing is impossible ;])+Razer Lachesis Logo lights+Copperhead other lights+Profile buton+Firmware Update
IMO The best mouse ever is the diamondback…But its getting old :/ (even with this “new” Diamondback 3G…)
January 31st, 2008 at 11:53 pm
Thanks for the firmware update Razer. With this new revision (v1.58) my new Lachesis works perfectly. However, my old “defective” Lachesis still suffers from the cursor jumping issue on the Mantis Speed. Additionally, this new firmware has introduced a new peculiarity in my “defective” mouse that causes it to “lag” about once every twenty seconds. The experience feels like the sensitivity is decreased significantly for about a second and then things return to normal. What is alarming is that a large number of Lachesis owners on the Razer Blueprints forum continue to experience cursor jumping and this new “lag” issue with firmware v1.58. Due to the fact that there appears to be a large number of these “defective” mouses in consumer hands I think that the upcoming official firmware should fix these two issues for all Lachesis owners whether or not their mouses are “defective”.
@ LkI3:
I agree with you except for the part about “Copperhead other lights”
February 6th, 2008 at 3:31 am
Hiho Razer,
Like you can read here:
http://razerblueprints.net/index.php/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,99/topic,6903.120/
Many people have confirmed MadPenguins Assumption.
Maybe, you should test into this direction too?
Hope that this helps
Cya
Soul
April 2nd, 2008 at 10:57 pm
How do you map the LCtrl to a button where it does not do repetitive button press action?
As it is right now; when I hold it the button down to crouch my soldier in the game he keeps bobbing up and down like I am constantly hitting the crouch button repeatedly. All I want is to hold the button and have him crouch; then when I let go he should stand up.
I am using the Driver 1.00 and the firmware 1.64. I have the LCtrl mapped to button 5 and have tried it on the other buttons with no luck.
Any help with this would be very appreciated.
April 3rd, 2008 at 4:44 pm
Never mind I found the fix. It was so simple and staring me right in the face. I just had to leave the buttons to their default settings and map them in the game. LOL
This was for BF2142 by the way.
June 18th, 2008 at 1:23 pm
Hello guys! I just got my new lachesis with eXactmat and lycosa. Lachesis works great with the new firmware. But I also had a question: Will the Wraith Red be availaible again?
Thanks